Pat Gwinn

Gwinn: ”Tell me a little bit about Christopher Biehler. Number one, how did you get involved in music?”

Biehler: “Well, it might have been when my mother was ironing clothes and she had the radio on and I was crawling around on the floor singing along to the songs on the radio, probably no different than a whole lot of people. I just one day decided that this is what I was going to do.”

Biehler: “It is just a goal, the inner need to be creative…it is in your heart. It has to be in your soul to just write and produce music. I am very creative person. I will tell you a real quick story, when they handed out the yearbooks in high school, I didn’t think I had won anything; I mean I had played basketball with the high school varsity team and things like this and in most yearb ooks in high schools, they nominate those most likely to succeed, best looking and all this…when I was flipping through the yearbook and they had voted me the 'Most Artistic' and I said to myself ‘WOW” because it was unexpected...I had no clue anyone else noticed … I had always drawn, painted and sculptured and at that point music was not a part of my life. Later on when I went to college and disco became popular, I got involved … I was not a big disco fan so I started playing oldies records at the college pub. It was nothing like it is today with the advancements in dj technology. We literally had a light switch for the switching between turntables on the sound system and I was making about $10 a night and a cheeseburger…come to think about it, they gave me a cheeseburger and ten bucks a night and a couple of beers.”

Gwinn: “Man, you were in paradise!”

Biehler: “Yeah! I was playing my favorite soul records and had at that point, collected a large number of soul records – Wilmer and Dukes, Otis Redding, James Brown and artists like that.”

Gwinn: “I believe that it is a gift from a higher being and I know you believe this too…to have that ability to hear music before it is ever played has to make you feel blessed.”
Biehler: “Someone once asked me, ‘did you always have good hearing?’ I have come to understand and apprieciate that I hear things differently than most people. Russell Thompkins, Jr. asked once if I always had good hearing? (Russell Thompkins, Jr. is the lead singer of The Stylistics)…he has worked with the best of the best – Tom Bell, – the listeners may remember him for producing all those great Stylistics records, producing The Spinners – Russell had worked with Van McCoy, you may remember him as one of the original pioneers of the disco sound – "The Hustle" – and a number of others. Russell Thompkins, J r. has worked with all these major producers. He looked at me one day, and said “Biehler you hear things better than any producer I have ever worked with in 30 years!” I said to him, ‘well, that is sort of because I have big ears!”

Gwinn: Laughing aloud.

Biehler: “I was so big as a kid and skinny! We would go outside to play at lunch time and all the kids at grammar school they would stand beside me to get some shade!”

Gwinn: Laughing.

Biehler: “I always knew there was a reason for the ears!”

Gwinn: “At least you took it lightly anyway!”

Gwinn: “Tell me about some of the earliest influences… I know you claim you were crawling around… what were those early influences.”

Biehler: “Jay and The Americans, Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys. Here in Upstate New York...probably one of the premier bands of all time was a little group out of Geneva, NY…called Wilmer Alexander, Jr. and The Dukes. In later years, I reformed the band without Wilmer and called the group The Legendary Dukes, and put them on the Forevermore label. The original group with Wilmer was really special. Wilmer had that ability to take a song and make it better! Better than the original song! It did not matter what song was – it could be Steams’ "Kiss Him Goodbye" or "In The Midnight Hour" by Wilson Pickett,
Wilmer had the ability to draw every ounce of soul from a song and I would just listen to those songs over and over. Keep in mind too, I was young at this time…I am talking second and third grade and we would hear them perform occasionally for all the high school kids… they were the rage! They had an obscure hit nationally, around 40 on the charts, called "Give Me One More Chance" on the Aphrodisiac label. It was a great group and that was really my influence.”

Gwinn: “As you look at music , it kind of takes you away to another place…emotionally…it really moves you doesn’t it?”

Biehler: “I cannot explain it Pat, but it does. I truly can’t explain the effect on me.”

Gwinn: “Expanding Beach Music to the world, the question asked by all, all sorts of conversations. Articles have been written by many djs, talking about either leaving the music in the Carolinas or expanding into the world. What is your take on this? How do we move it or should we move it?”

Biehler: “Music is art and Beach Music nothing more than music, just a different form of music.
There are two contingencies, two camps, if you will in Beach Music that I have come to recognize. There are those that want it to be exclusive. The songs and the performances can only can be by those who live in the Carolinas…the concpet is like a "local only" of beach music. And then, there is the other camp, or another group of people who believe ‘bring in everybody!” The more the merrier. Make it a national music genre. For example, music in England is called Northern Soul – it is not that different from Beach Music. I was looking on a website about Northern Soul in England recently and there were two Jackie Gore and The Embers songs. "First Time" and "Where Do I Go Wrong"… they were like a hundred dollars for each of these 45s.”

For me, Beach Music is the best kind of music because it is music that when it is done right, it comes from the heart. It comes from the soul. It has meaning and it brings you back to another place and another time. It takes you away. It could be a brand new song and for that moment, four minutes that the song is playing on the radio you are transformed – placed into another place.

Gwinn: “Chris, you and I have talked about this music going into other places. I am proud to broadcast on Live 365.com. An Internet radio station that has Pat Gwinn At The Bea ch - airing 24 hours a day, seven days a week. We get hits… charted geographical areas from the Live 365 support teams telling us that we are listened to in the UK, through England, Australia, you name it… we are there! People that listen for hours to my show, Willie C’s Beach Music Café and others… Rochester, New York, Pittsburgh, PA. and others … Chris, I am amazed.”

Biehler: “You know Pat, it is because you have a professional delivery and do a professional job. Not everyone can hear the same variety of Beach Music that you hear on a Pat Gwinn’s show anywhere else."

Gwinn: “Many may not be aware that in 2002, Forevermore Records released
"Love Don’t Come No Stronger Than Yours and Mine" with Craig Woolard. The Cammy Awards Show had to be a special night for you and Woolard.”

Biehler: “Where do you go wrong? I mean, you have probably one of the classiest individuals and most professional performers in the Carlonas, all the way around... and a nice guy – Craig Woolard!, how do you go wrong? It was easy.”

Gwinn: “We spoke while the music was playing about the different levels of performance. I have known people who have worked with legends such as The Oak Ridge Boys, Reba McEntire in the country music arena to Russell Thompkins, Jr., Craig Woolard as you have…Is there a difference with the new artists as opposed to the legends and superstars? How do they get to that stature? Is there a different feel in the studio?”

Biehler: “Well, I will give you an exa mple Pat. On Tuesday morning I start work in the studio with Danny and The Juniors. In 1958 the listeners will remember – AT THE HOP, ROCK AND ROLL IS HERE TO STAY. In the past few years we have had a few good songs that made the beach charts. When taking our time, coming up here (New York) for a big performance. Whether it is Danny and The Juniors or Russell Thompkins, Jr. and The Stylistics, with the exception of a very few artists, all the artists on Forevermore Records have been national acts. They toured the world but the one thing that remains the same is that they are just good people. Whether it is Craig Woolard, Russell Thompkins, Jr., … I think I talk to Craig and Russell at least once or twice a week and have for the past three years. Just nice guys! In the studio, as a producer, I do not have to over-tell them what to do. They know it instinctively. The big thing for all the musicians and singers in the bands coming up – they have the least ego. Danny and The Juniors, T he Stylistics, Craig Woolard…here are some of the most successful people I have had the opportunity to work with and their egos are almost non- existent.

Gwinn: “On to the subjects of schools Chris, South Carolina and North Carolina… all schools for that matter are in the midst of major budget crunches. New York is facing similar problems. There is talk about removing the arts from the schools. Not only paint and drawings but also music. That to me is detrimental.”

Biehler: “We know that students who have music in their curriculum do better in school. It gives schools a meaning for them. Pat, not every kid goes to school to become a scientist or biologist. They may not be English majors or history majors. But the music pulls together all those disciplines in math, science and reading. Music is an avenue to express yourself in a manner that other classes may not give you. In New York State, Pat, we are going through a big problem. Th ey had the state exams and this year (2003), in the math section – there were a couple of other subjects that this happened to as well – the state’s math exam, only 30% of the student body in that particular school passed. So what do they do in their infinite wisdom? They decided to throw the test out. Invalidate the test if you will. Here is the interesting thing… other districts averaged 70% of the student body passing. Pat, my father is 70 years old and I spend a lot of time with him. My father said "if you do not take the violin out of the case you are never going to learn to play it". No matter how much money the state throws at the schools, regardless of how great and dedicated the teachers are – it is up to the student… it is up to the individual to strive to be the best that they can be..they have to be responsible for themselves."

Gwinn: “Completely different age groups are now coming through beach music. A lot of radio stations, as time goes on, fo r example, let’s say that a star that has been established since the sixties and seventies suddenly resurfaces. It is very difficult for them to get airplay on major radio stations. Do you have a reason for that?”

Biehler: “Right now is different from when I started five years ago promoting certain records. My uncles have been in this business for 38 years. They are legends in the business. Steve Brody and Leonard Silver. It is very difficult to get any airplay because it is controlled by very few. The very people against Internet file sharing of music happen to be the big record companies. Obviously, I am not making a case pro or con but they happen to have the ear of the RIAA - The Recording Institute Association of America. The reason is that they have been able to control what you hear. With the exceptions of great stations like WGQR and others, there are very few stations that incorporate into their play list more than 300 songs and incorporate local music.

Gwinn: “That is why I believe our syndicated shows and the live show on Sunday nights are so important.”

Biehler: “Those shows have a meaning and they have a purpose. I am familar and I know current music trends, and someone strike me to the ground, but Fifty Cents and others like him,
do not have a bit of talent when compared to people like Jay Proctor, Russell Thomkins, Jr., and Craig Woolard. – I am sorry. They don’t have the same ability. And the music does not have the melody. It does not have a broad, long-lasting meaning.”

Gwinn: “Groups such as those are put together to make fast cash for a record company.”

Biehler: “Someone once asked me how vital is a video to a song and my answer has always been that music – the mind is probably the greatest theatre in the world. But so many songs today rely on a video to get the meaning across."

Gwinn: “Poor writing?”

Biehler: “Poor production, poor everything.”

Gwinn: “Terri Gore had a new song out on Forevermore Records, I was blown away by the song when I heard it! ‘Baby, I’m Calling You Now.”

Biehler: “Terri Gore is no stranger to anyone in the area. She has won numerous Cammy Awards as the Female Vocalist of the Year. She has finished a good part of a lot of songs for her third album. One night, Russell Thompkins, Jr. and I were in the studio listening to some of those tracks and he said he would like to sing backgrounds on one of those songs... one in which Terri had sort of finished. Interesting too, part of that song is actually very personal – Terri left me a message one night that was a heart-felt, personal message. I never thought I would ever share it anyone, let alone with the world because it is so personal. But somewhere in the creative process, I decide d to attached the message to the front of the song – the result was “Baby, I’m Calling You Now.” If you listen carefully, you hear Terri say "...thank you for being such a good friend." The long and short, it took about three years, five different studios, some of the best musicians in the world.

Gwinn: About Forevermore Records:

Forevermore Records was founded in 1991, but our history dates back to 1957 as Masters Releasing, Inc. of Buffalo, New York. The label was founded by legendary record mogul Steve Brodie and nephew Christopher Biehler, originally to release some of their (over) 10,000 masters from the late 50’s through the early 70’s, from the Thunderbird, Sahara, Swan and Lawn catalogs of music Forevermore is the worldwide legitimate Federal Courts approved rights owner of the Swan catalog and label. Forevermore has evolved from initially being an oldies reissue label to an award winning and highly acclaimed R&B, Blues, Doo Wop, Southern Soul, Carolina Beach and Northern & Modern Soul music enterprise. Producer Christopher Biehler has worked with many notable artists such as Bill Doggett, Hank Ballard, Danny & the Juniors, Jay Proctor and the incomparable Russell Thompkins, Jr. & the Stylistics.